The other morning while I was doling out Pop Tarts, Miss A asked my why "we" haven't done anything good.
ME: Huh?
HER: How come people with our kind of skin haven't done as many good things as people with black skin?
ME: What? [this is pre-coffee]
HER: How come when you learn about something good that someone did, it's never a person with our kind of skin?
ME: [the light of Black History Month is dawning] Well, it's Black History Month, so at school you're probably learning about a lot of good things different black people have done, right?
HER: Yeah, why is it Black History Month?
ME: Because for a long time, people believed black people weren't as good as white people, and people treated them badly.
HER: [remembering a school lesson] And they couldn't eat at the same restaurants or swim in the same pools or go to the same schools.
ME: Exactly. And even before that, black people were made to be slaves, and work for no money for white people.
HER: Like when that guy made you work for him and then didn't pay you?
ME: Um, a little, but way worse. Black people were stolen from where they lived, and tied up, and brought here to work, and if they didn't work they were beaten.
HER: That was a long time ago.
ME: It was about 150 years ago. But it wasn't very long ago at all that they still had to use different pools and stuff. That's why it's such a big deal that we have a black president.
HER: I want a cinnamon Pop Tart and then a chocolate chip Pop Tart.
ME: ...okay.
***
I've had several interesting race-related exchanges with my kids lately. Recently for Daisy Scouts, Miss A had to list three people who were different from her -- she picked a white friend who was adopted from overseas, a black classmate, and a classmate who is possibly Italian. When I asked why she'd chosen each, the Italian and black classmates were both chosen for skin color.
It's uncomfortable for me to broach this with my kids. We used to have a more diverse group of friends, but once I got pregnant with Miss A, and then really once we moved to Cincinnati and had the twins, we lost touch with most of our friends. Now we get Christmas cards and baby announcements, but that's it. We have baby dolls with brown skin -- Helena's one and only named baby doll, Sally, is a dolly of color -- and Dora and her family are everywhere, but we are surrounded by people whose skin tones are in a narrow range, with few exceptions. I'm not sure books and television programming and toys teach diversity, since those black or Hispanic or Asian characters are juxtaposed with furry monsters and talking animals.
I have a child who recently told me he doesn't like people with dark skin. This extends to white people with olive skin, although he excepted our relatives and friends as I named off the ones of Mediterranean descent. WTF? What do I do about this? Jason and I have, separately, had a number of conversations with him about how it's unfair to dislike someone for the way they look, how everyone is the same, how that would be like someone saying they didn't like him for his blue eyes, etc. He thinks that's fine, by the way -- he says he just wouldn't be friends with someone if they said they didn't like his eyes being blue.
I don't know what to do. We're upset about it, but trying not to make a big deal because it's not like he's spouting hate language and he doesn't have the capacity to understand why this issue is so charged for us... But it's not an acceptable mindset in our household. Huge overwhelming race issues aside, the kids aren't allowed to use the words "ugly," "fat," or "stupid" when talking about people either. This is to compensate for the fact that I'm totally shallow.
So... any advice?
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maybe you can do an African culture theme, like how you do holiday themes. Maybe that would help him understand, appreciate and perhaps overcome it. If all else fails, paint wolverine black, and voila all is well. Joking of course. lol
ReplyDeleteTough one. What about using President Obama as a catalyst for discussion? Would he refuse to be friends with the President? What makes a skin color impact someone's ability to enjoy the same things he does? What if his brother had a different skin color? Just some questions that might help...
ReplyDeleteStop being shallow?
ReplyDeleteDig in more. I think you need to go ahead and make it a big deal. Just because he doesn't use the N word, doesn't make what he's saying not hateful. I think you're right to be worried. It's not the same as calling someone ugly or fat. Those are not nice things to say, but saying that I don't like people who look like me is racist, period. And because he's white, it's not as simple as "I won't be their friend," if they don't like his eye color. He's white. We're the bad guys, historically. Ok, sorry about that. I know we don't know each other that well.
I have no specific advice for you. Just wanted to say that I love your blog and how real you are. Keep teaching your kids to do the right thing - eventually it will all work itself out.
ReplyDeleteHe is 5, and definitely not an advanced 5. That is an important consideration... Yelling at him or punishing him over it isn't going to change his mindset, and he already knows we don't want him to feel this way.
ReplyDeleteFor a 5-year-old who is completely oblivious to our country's history, disliking someone because they are overweight/unattractive/different skin color is all the same. It's all surface level, and all unacceptable.
I asked what if his aunt and uncle have a baby who has dark skin, and he said he didn't know, he *might* like the baby. I will talk to him about how he'd feel if his twin had darker skin -- I think that's a good idea. I wonder if having someone who looks exactly like him makes it easier for him to reject people on appearance, the less they look like him.
An African culture theme is a good idea too... I'll have to figure out some good games and recipes.
He's friendly and acts comfortable with people, including African Americans with very dark skin, so it's not that he's completely unexposed to people who look different...
I don't want to come off as though I'm defending him for feeling this way. It is completely unacceptable to dislike someone because of the way they look. But he is a 5 year old, in preschool, and that has to weigh into any suggestions.
Yeah, you really need to take into account the fact that he's five, and oblivious to all this baggage the rest of us carry around. It seems like telling him he can't think of feel a certain way is bound to backfire (besides being, well, kind of obnoxious, he has free will like everybody else, right? Not to ACT any way he wants, but to FEEL). Just keep reinforcing and leading by example. He'll figure it out.
ReplyDeleteOkay...so over at Proud House, I'm white and their father is from the ME. My oldest son went through a stage several years ago when he didn't like white people. I was an exception, as were several other family members. My husband and myself very quietly and kindly stated the same things that you and Jason have probably been saying. Then, as long as he didn't make it an issue, we let sleeping dogs lie. One day, it just went away. We were glad to see it go, but, in our own experience...when you give little ones the right foundation, when the are able to, they will make the right choices with the foundation you've helped lay for them.
ReplyDeleteI guess what I'm trying to say is, it sounds to me, like you are doing just the right thing, and, his affirming otherwise might just be because he knows he is getting your goat, so to speak. Any chance this is your twin who has more issues with behavioral stuff?
I would never say yell at him or punish him. I just mean to say make it a big deal. African culture days, asking him about his twin, etc. are all good ways to start. But understanding he is 5 . . . are their other 5 year olds who are "advanced" who do have some understanding of the difference between being fat and being black? Or other 5 year olds who understand the difference because they are black? 6 year olds? Teachers and administrators in his school? That's my thinking. He has to interact with all of those people every day.
ReplyDeleteAlso, have you found out where it came from? It just seems like a very odd thing for a 5 year-old to come up with on their own. And I may be being too harsh here, I don't have a 5 year old so I don't know for sure. It just seems like the beginning of a serious problem to me.
It is my twin whose behavior is generally more concerning.
ReplyDeleteHomemaker Man, I'm not sure I get what you mean in your last comment. I mean, he knows the difference between being overweight and having dark skin... but he doesn't understand the significance of it. In his mind, he is expressing a preference akin to, "I don't like girls," or "I don't like babies," or "I don't like people who wear purple," or "I don't like library day." He just doesn't get it. To him it is merely a preference.
ReplyDeleteI would guess that children who are in the minority in their school/city/neighborhood are more sensitive to race than kids who are in the majority. I don't think my kids know that we are "white." I'm not sure my 5-year-olds know that "black" is the name for their teacher's skin color, even though her skin is brown. Probably a black kid in a mostly white area knows these terms -- maybe not. Probably if I had a black child I would have talked about race more, both to instill pride and to give him or her words to talk about the difference between the child's skin and mine. So far I have tried to tackle race by not making a big deal about it, but by providing books and toys that reflect a lot of different people. Obviously that hasn't worked so well with this one of my children.
I have no clue where his thinking came from, and it seems odd to me too. He is almost always in our care. He has an aunt and uncle who are racist, but they try to hide it from the kids and also have a biracial daughter...? Yeah. Anyway, I think if someone had planted the seed for this thinking, my other twin would probably be expressing these same feelings.
I can not think of the title right off the top of my head but I do know there are a lot of great children`s literature books out there featuring African and Asian folklore and cultures. They have amazing illustrations etc.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJen. I think you're doing great. You're not overreacting, but you're trying to challenge his thinking at the same time. One, I wonder if he had a situation with a "dark skin" person did that he associated it to all people of color. Maybe he doesn't like that they are getting a month of celebration when he only gets one birthday a year, which he has to share mind you.
ReplyDeleteIf you think its a problem I think a good exercize would be for each person in your family to be a different color for a day, but show prejudice (to adults who understand the exercise). For example, you are a green person for the day. You don't get to eat cookies or watch tv or play in their games, or whatever else he sees as a privilege, because you are green. Show your hurt feelings. I think this teaches prejudice on an elementary school level and opens up more discussion. I totally feel like I just wrote a lesson plan.
jen, jen, jen. i am always so grateful that you live my life (and write about it) before i have to.
ReplyDeletemy entire family is racist.
i am not.
i can not, for the life of me, figure out why i am not like them.
they are also very christian, but i'm SURE it's just a coincidence.
they also eat at buffets . . .
you know what is right for your family. children learn by example. DO NOT, as a homemaker man once said, make a big deal about this. i even think a "culture day" sounds pretty absurd. who the fuck has a "culture day" at home? that's just really weird. and you are being racist by TRYING TOO hard not to be. wow, hmmmm, black culture, what kind of things do those *different* people do? well, more black people have twins. oh, that's not so different.
yes, it is absolutely terrifying. it is one of my greatest fears for my children, second only to organized religion.
my advice? start getting high with your son. i'm serious. i can probably attribute my random open mind to the copious amounts of drugs that i ingested. i'm not saying to tie him off or anything, just smoke some pot every once in a while. it'll get him thinking . . .
ooh! almost forgot, i posted about the video. i know you've been waiting. i wouldn't be mad if you smoked up the kid and watched it together, either. the hubbs and i did that last night and it was EVEN BETTER.
if you can believe that.
We went through a similar phase with my oldest when she was a bit younger than five. She was not weird or standoffish, but at home she would say that she didn't like people with dark or brown skin. We simply stated each time that it was not good to choose to like or dislike someone based on looks, and left it to that. As long as she treated people nicely, we did not make a big deal. Fast forward and she is now nine, almost ten, and one of the most accepting kids I know. She will be friends with anyone and everyone, regardless of disability, race, hair color or quirks....I think it was just a phase. She was learning about herself at that time, this was when she began comparing herself, her hair color to her friend's, her eye color to mine, etc. I am sure it is a phase of self examination, and right now, different may be uncomfortable. Do all the "steps" we as moms do, speak openly, read a story book, watch TV shows that show diversity, etc. but I am sure it is more about him categorizing himself, than true racism, since a strong model would need to be present for him to show hatred so young and that is not happening in your home.
ReplyDeletePuleeze. NOT a serious problem. Kids say things they don't even understand. Don't make a big deal of it and it will pass, just like the baby talk.
ReplyDeleteThat's my two cents and also I think I'm in love with Freckletree.
Does he have any interaction with kids with 'dark skin'? Anyone at school or in the neighborhood? Maybe he had a negative run in with someone and is drawing just from that experience.
ReplyDeleteI think you are on the right track, just keep talking to him about how it is not okay to dislike someone for that reason alone.
I don't think it should be brushed off as no big deal, but I don't think this means that he is going to feel this way forever either.
You guys are awesome and I so appreciate every one of your comments.
ReplyDeleteTo my knowledge, he has never had a negative experience with anyone with darker skin. If he has, it was such a minor event that I assumed it was nothing and forgot it. He has an AA teacher and classmates who are Hispanic or Italian-American. He has a classmate who is a bully, according to the boys, but that kid looks like a white kid with brown hair, to me.
Maybe he had a run-in with a kid in a grocery store playroom. That seems like a possibility. It was something tragic like the kid said he already knew how to play the game my boys were playing.
This afternoon I asked the boys about their AA teacher -- she is on a list of people who are willing to babysit my spawn, and I asked if they liked her and would like her to babysit. They were both all smiley and said yes. So she is an exception to his rule...
Then just to be sure, I talked with Miss A today about race. She's good. She gets it, that everyone is equal and knows a lot about slavery and the Civil War and Lincoln and whatnot. I was impressed.
Homemaker Man, it's a perfectly normal thing for a 5 year old to come up with. Kids are weird. ;)
ReplyDeleteCHEJEEAZ. such a serious thing but not so much for the kids. just for us 'grown ups'. he's five. i wrote my own post in comment to you sort of. thats that. wifemother
ReplyDeleteWithout reading through the other comments, I may repeat some stuff, but here's my 2 cents:
ReplyDeleteI think it's totally normal for your son to say something like that. Differences make everyone a tad uncomfortable, especially differences that we aren't used to. I don't think it's about race, I think it's about him just trying to figure out how the world works and fits together. He's probably just "trying something on" when he says stuff like that.
My own kids were laughing at the Chinese atheletes names last night when we were watching the Olympics. I intervened, said that wasn't really fair, etc., but when stuff like this happens, and it happens enough that I have a strategy, I try to very matter-of-factly describe how I want them to approach people by saying something like: "Yeah, you probably aren't used to names like that, but there are different names all over the world. You'll meet people with names that might sound strange to you but you'll get used to it and you'll figure out that that's just the way the world is." Or, "Yeah, I can see how you might think that, but as you get older, you'll see that there are really great people of all different colors." I make lots of non-chalant comments to the effect of: "God makes all kinds of different people, that's what makes the world beautiful." I think they are experimenting with ideas, not so much espousing ideology. And I think it's a danger to make them feel bad for expressing a thought like that; if we can just sort of show them an alternative way of looking at things, I think they'll have the "world view" (for lack of a better phrase) widened and ready for continual widenening as they grow up.
God I hope so, cuz that's what I'm goin' with.
My son did the same thing. One day I was flipping through TV shows telling him his options that he could watch and we came across the show Little Bill, which is about an African American family.
ReplyDeleteKadin told me he didn't want to watch it because he didn't like black people. I was horrified! We had never even spoken about different races or made references to people of different races ... I had no clue where he got this from.
I probed him a bit more ... tried explaining to him how that wasn't appropriate. When I asked him why he didn't like black people he just said "Cuz I don't like the way they look."
We went out and bought some books about diversity and accepting the differences in people. As quickly as that comment appeared ... it disappeared. Now Kadin is in kindergarten and his very best friend is an African American little girl - that he wants to marry btw!
So - in my experience ... I wouldn't be too concerned. I think sometimes kids just say things and they don't even know what they are saying. It would be different if your son was 15 and saying that!
whoa, whoa, whoa.
ReplyDeleteyou never told me that your GROCERY STORE had a playroom.
no wonder your kid is so racist.
i'm assuming you don't watch dateline?
they totally did a story last week on all of the klansmen that drop their kids off at grocery playrooms to infect the other children.
serious question: has your racist kid asked for any white sheets lately? yeah, you thought it was pretty weird that he wanted white sheets for his bed, right? not to worry, jen. he's only joining the KKK.